http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=turkey-shifting-position-on-libya--2011-03-20
Turkey is quietly trying to shift its position on outside intervention in Libya, which it previously opposed, suggesting that it approves of a NATO plan that includes both military and political measures.
From the article "Libyan leader Gadhafi had been 'warned... to respect his people's will,' Turkey's prime minister says".
AntwortenLöschenIf I might say, that is a bit fucking rich from a country that has been in occupation in Cyprus since 1974!
Fucking hypocrits.
That is rich Paul! I don't suppose this is a sign that the Turk leadership has undergone a change of heart. More like they're looking for a bit more foreign aid.
AntwortenLöschenNow that would ring true enough!
AntwortenLöschenTurkey, Italy and Germany are opposing it. Because, no one has asked their permission of NATO participation. And then this whole thing is being tried to BE made into a NATO act.
AntwortenLöschenIt has got NOTHING to do with NATO.
I can only APPLAUD the Turkish PM for his straightforward position on this neo-imperialistic ambition of France and the UK.
It all has to do with what's under the ground. They don't really care about Ghadaffi. I had to look it up, but its apparent that since the Sarir Field, which is largest oil field in Libya, is located in the Southern part of what was once called Cyrenaica which is the eastern half of Libya it is all about oil. What most have forgotten is that Libya, like many countries in Africa, is a conglomeration of areas created under the period of colonialism. Libya is a creation of the Italian colonization of Africa which consolidated three disparate tribal areas under one administrative district. In the past, before Ghadaffi, Libya was ruled from Benghazi and the King was friendly with the West. The King was overthrown and the power base switched to the western part or the area around Tripoli. However, while there are many other fields in Libya, the largest is likely to be controlled by whoever is installed in Benghazi.
AntwortenLöschenIn an irony, the flag the rebels are using is the old flag of the Libyan kingdom.
AntwortenLöschenMuhahahahaaaaaa....
AntwortenLöschenGreat!
You are correct Gurcan, NATO is flexing it's atrophied muscles.
AntwortenLöschenWhy is Turkey in NATO anyway?
Didn't they get co-opted as they had the airspace next to the Kurds in northern Iraq?
AntwortenLöschenTurkey, under Ataturk's reforms of 1920s has been one of the MOST modern secular republics in the world, in spite of its 99% Muslim population.
AntwortenLöschenFor example, women had equal rights with man, including voting and getting elected, since 1924! This is a date very hard to beat even in the West. For example, Swiss women were FINALLY allowed to vote as late as 1964.
After WW-II, TR decided to BOLSTER its integration with the Western Civilization (no, I am not BS'ing, although it almost sounds like).
After all, M.K. Ataturks most pronounced principle was that TR had to seek, match and pass the most advanced contemporary civilizations in the world wherever it might be.
His vision was very clear that it was the West.
I personally "worship" him as my true guidance to rational, reason and unity for a civilized society.
Anyway, as soon as the DUST in Europe settled, TR applied for NATO membership.
At that time, in order to "isolate" the red menace of the Soviets, the US was forming all kinds of military alliances, such as NATO, CENTO and SEATO, the last two having now become history. NATO's Easternmost link was Turkey. And then CENTO was an alliance of Turkey, Iran and Pakistan.
To demonstrate its commitment to the western civilization AND it democratic form of government, Turkey has participated in the Korean war with the LARGEST contingency after the USA.
Of course it still was minuscule compared to the US forces, but, nevertheless it was at least twice larger than any other largest party. Furthermore, while most of the OTHERS participated in support functions, the Turkish contingency was (to my knowledge) the ONLY contingency to ACTUALLY have fought against the Chinese (see "Kunuri")
Although I do not approve or endorse sending your own boys to the harms way half way around the world, that was the way the Turkish politicians of that time have chosen (I condemn them on behalf of the souls of the fallen Turkish soldiers in Korea).
[ what to say about the US and the UK politicians sending them today to death in some godforsaken places?]
the short of the long is that at that time the USA was completely convinced that TR's NATO membership would be THE right thing.
Indeed, over half of a century, it was proved to be so.
Today, Turkey has the LARGEST NATO army, second only to the USA. It was trusted the first resistance and the first attack role against the Soviet Union.
The CUBAN CRISIS was actually INITIATED because of the nuclear missiles strategically placed in TURKEY, which could hit the Soviets without sufficient advance notice. In response, the Soviets installed their missiles in Cuba.
The Cuban crisis is well known. But the aftermath of it is not so well known:
The only way the US could have the missiles dismounted from Cuba was by itself removing its missiles from TURKEY.
At that time, Turkey had actually felt "betrayed and abandoned" by the USA.
Turkish Military is still the most trusted and relied upon component of the NATO alliance.
THANKS GOD, thus far the "threat" of its presence alone had been enough in the region and that it did not need to actually step in (I hope it stays that way).
Today, in spite of newspaper headline level polemics, the Turkish Military and its eccentric "Islamist" (fake) PM are the most relied upon political force in the Middle East front of NATO.
If it were not for the determination of its politicians of the past to unequivocally proclaim to be a WESTERN ASPIRING country, today, it perhaps would have been another Syria or Algeria at best.
Sorry for the very long tirade.
Ha ha, no problem Gurcan. I appreciate your comment. I'm not against Turkey being in NATO, quite the opposite. I do have some doubts about their relationship with Iran against Israel. That relationship affected some major military exercises recently, and made me wonder if Turkey wasn't trying to position itself in a leadership role in Islam.
AntwortenLöschenI haven't read todays news, and things change fast. So I'll be back in a while. Thanks.
I am not a sympathizer of the strategy of Israel.
AntwortenLöschenI am surely not a Jew-hater either (ehhem... blush... my HS heartache was a Jewish Girl to whom, even today, after a long life close to retirement, i would trust everything I have to her without one single moment's hesitation.)
Equally, Iran is an archaic regime where the politicians are exploiting to the hilt the ancient fear and religious conditioning and ignorance of its own people.
I am surely for an Iran -or any other nation- who is sovereign, meaning, people who have absolved themselves from exploitations of other nations. But, in the process, Iran has fallen victim to its OWN rulers.
Most of the Iranians who COULD get out of iRAN have. A huge many of them are here in the USA. They are very proud of their culture, identity and religion. Of course we hardly heare about them, because they are a CONSTRUCTIVE component of the USA. Many US corporations have their CEOs as immigrant Iranians... the creme of the crop of Shah's Iran.
As the politics go, cheap publicity stunts are the bread and butter of the politicians.
Erdogan, the current Turkish PM is no different. As Merkel of Germany has her short term agenda, so does he. He has been CATERING to the simple folks on the countryside with a fictitious "Islamist with national pride" agenda.
But the US is certain that it is a small price to pay.
What? is he going to raid IL? Fawgetaboutit.
First of all the Turkish Military would simply reject any such nonsense.
He is HARVESTING a few more votes before he is counterbalanced by a forthcoming opposition party leader.
Look at IL itself. It is a maddeningly complex coalition of what? 5 or so parties? No party is n agreement with the other. The foreign minister simply disrespects the PM... etc....
These are 'daily antics" of political life.
But, of course Turkey would object getting dragged into Libya... Wouldn't YOU?
WHAT THE HECK is the LIBYA mission as far as NATO is concerned?
France and UK asked for it... OK... they got something (I dunno what and why)... and so let us see do the dance...
What is it ti Turkey? What is it ti NATO?
SHEESH!
So you have no problem with having a country in NATO that has a standing and occupying army in another country, and has had that army in that country for 37 years???
AntwortenLöschenIn my opinion, Turkey should be ostracised - including stopping European Union entry and allowing cheap flights in and out of the dump until they are forced to leave northern Cyprus.
About time we got tough with these assholes.
Well, Turkey wouldn't be the only NATO country with a standing army in another country, would it?
AntwortenLöschen37 years, mate?
AntwortenLöschenEngland/Ireland?
AntwortenLöschenYes, I think its about time America got out of Germany. Why are they there any more anyway? Sorry, that's 66 years, not 37.
AntwortenLöschenFunny, I thought the American bases in both Germany and UK were there as part of the contribution of forces to NATO.
AntwortenLöschenSomewhat different to a mass invasion when the different countries like the UK and Greece had their backs turned arguing amongst themselves!
But why? Cold war ended in the early 90s mate. Unless you think Turkey might invade!
AntwortenLöschenI dunno. Ask Merkel, I'm sure she'll give you an answer.
AntwortenLöschenWhile I agree the Cyprus problem should have been solved many, many years ago Turkey were within their rights as a signatory (along with Greece and the UK) of the Treaty of Guarantee to intervene under Article 3 of the same.
AntwortenLöschenhttp://www.kypros.org/Cyprus_Problem/treaty.html
When the problems arose in 1974 I was stationed at RAF Akrotiri and lived in nearby Limassol.Turkish Cypriots were not a part of the problem it was Greek Cypriot against Greek Cypriot but Turkish Cypriot businesses were ordered to close. Some Turkish Cypriots fled North, many barricaded themselves within the harbour area and many were arrested and detained in local schools. One such school was only a couple of streets away and while I didn't find it pleasant to listen to the wails and screams at night I can only guess at the treatment they were made to endure.
I was working nights when we got word that the Turkish troops were landing in the North and many cheered because they were fulfilling their obligation whereas the UK and Greece, the other signatories, rather than have their backs turned, chose to do nothing.
As for Turkey occupying the North for 37 years, it should be remembered that the UK still retains Sovereign Bases (that belong to the UK) and have done for the last 51 years.
Finally in the 2004 referendum the North, with the support of Turkey, voted for reunification while the South voted against. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3656753.stm
The so-called referendum was mainly rejected in the south because it was inflicted upon them by the world, not for any other reason than to pacify the Turks, because the NATO and UN forces wanted the use of the Turkish airbases to patrol the no-fly zone over the Kurdish areas of Iraq.
AntwortenLöschenThis was nothing to do with democracy in Cyprus, but loads to do with monitoring Saddam Hussein and his ilk.
THX. As an expat I had refrained so far.
AntwortenLöschen