http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2105131/HALF-Americans-dont-pay-income-tax-despite-crippling-government-debt.html
151.7m people - 49.5% of the U.S. population - paid no federal income tax in 2009, figures show
21.8 per cent of U.S. citizens receive financial assistance from the federal government.
This means that 67.3million people - a record high - are 'dependent on the federal government', excluding government employees who rely on the public sector for their salaries.
The conjunction of fewer taxpayers with higher welfare payments has led to intense pressure on the public purse, with the national deficit running at $1.3trillion per year.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2105131/HALF-Americans-dont-pay-income-tax-despite-crippling-government-debt.html#ixzz1nEMVu6IC
You mean babies, people over 90, quadriplegics, and people with no income pay no income tax?!!? Stop the presses.
AntwortenLöschenNow let me know when you have something real to post.
Nope - people filing federal tax returns. Presses stopped.
AntwortenLöschen"151.7million U.S. citizens paid no federal income tax in 2009, according to figures compiled by the Heritage Foundation, a right-wing think tank."
AntwortenLöschenPeople QuickFacts, USA ... Population, 2010, 308,745,538
And you can start the presses again.
'
It seems you are correct.
AntwortenLöschen*sulks away*
I'm not quibbling with you so much as I am Heritage Foundation. They put the damned figure out there I'm assuming because they hope people don't try to look at it too hard. Which apparently Mail online doesn't. But what they are trying to do is show the wealthy pay more than their share of the taxes. Including I guess those wealthy kids that don't file damned their freeloading hearts.
AntwortenLöschenYeah, the percentage of people filing returns has gone down, but that is what a recession is all about. Less people are working. Does anybody seriously expect somebody with no income to pay income tax?
Heritage Foundation? This article was written by the MAIL. How do you know they did not screw this up?
AntwortenLöschen"Does anybody seriously expect somebody with no income to pay income tax?"
What about people making 40-75K per year? Should they pay something?
"WASHINGTON – Amid complaints that nearly half of tax filers in the U.S. won't pay federal income taxes this year, this has been lost: Those making $75,000-$100,000 a year are the fastest-growing share of people who don't pay federal income taxes."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/story/2011-10-06/income-tax-nonpayment/50676912/1
What about it? I think that people with these types of income need to put something into the kiddy. This is why I post about this all the time.
The Mail quoted the Heritage foundation. That's where I got that quote from. Now whether the Mail bollixed it up, that's possible. I suppose I should go look at Heritage Foundation's site.
AntwortenLöschenI'd really have to check out the figures behind the USA Today story. They talk about a number of tax credits that have long since expired. It also noted that everybody IS paying something - there are no deductions from Social Security or Medicare Payments. But the idea that people making $75 K on salary not paying taxes is wrong. My bet is if anybody is doing that, they have a lot of expenses that are business related.
The Mail got it right. Here is the Heritage Foundations article they are quoting from:
AntwortenLöschenhttp://blog.heritage.org/2012/02/19/chart-of-the-week-nearly-half-of-all-americans-dont-pay-income-taxes/
Just not Federal Income Taxes. The point I am making (and often make) and the topic of this post.
AntwortenLöschenAgain, should people making 75K a year in earned income pay federal income taxes? Why is this so hard for you to answer?
Right now half the people in the USA filing federal income tax returns pay no federal income taxes. You are OK with this? Really?
It's not OK with me Randy, I just don't believe the figures until I can check on them. As with the Heritage Foundation report itself there is a lot of total crap being pawned off as actual fact complete with charts with bogus scales. And you are back to your original misstatement. Show me where anybody is saying that half of tax filers don't pay any tax, not half the population because that argument is bullshit.
AntwortenLöschenThis article is actually including people outside of the working age range; do they really expect babies to pay income taxes? First, it should only include people between the ages of 18 and 65, the working years. Secondly, the reason so many people are not paying taxes is because their taxable income, the income that you actually pay taxes on, is below the level set by the government; which I believe is around $8500; I don't know the exact figure without looking it up. Either they just don't make enough income to reach the taxable level, or after they take the deductions allowed under the law their taxable income is below the amount set by the government. If you want to be appalled over the statistics; after you adjust for the babies and old people, be appalled by the fact that so many people are not making a decent wage..
AntwortenLöschenNo one that I know is saying this? When I post about this I link to sites that show half of those filing federal income tax returns are paying ZERO federal income taxes.
AntwortenLöschenI think this is a major problem on many levels. One being that people who want federal entitlements but pay no federal income taxes are asking something for nothing. A free ride so to speak.
The other reason it bothers me is because the country is in major debt! When half the wage earners pay nothing it is a problem.
From the article, "That means 151.7 million Americans paid nothing in 2009." From a google search, "The current U.S.A. population is over 311 million people". Fifty percent equals half. 311/2=155.5. They are including babies, kids, old people. Unless my education was for nothing and I can not do simple maths.
AntwortenLöschenYea - the Mail screwed up the figures but still the point is valid.
AntwortenLöschenRandy, we already hashed this one out at the beginning of this thread, remember? What you are linking to says half the population, not half the people with income to report. Don't play stupid with me, I know you better than that.
AntwortenLöschenYes, because it means they are not earning a decent wage and the majority of the US capital is tied up in the bank accounts of the 1% which is actually crippling the economy. A very large percentage of the money in the US is out of circulation. This is economics 101.
AntwortenLöschenThe Mail didn't screw up, I gave you the direct link to the Heritage Foundation page with the quote.
AntwortenLöschenIt is purposely misleading to make the figures higher.
AntwortenLöschenNot playing stupid. I admit the Mail screwed this up. What they meant to say (and it's accurate) is that half of those filing tax returns do not pay federal income taxes.
AntwortenLöschenThat is their ill expressed point and mine as well.
My point is that i am a part of the 53%
AntwortenLöschenIn response to Occupy Wall Street's protest slogan of "We are the 99 percent," conservatives have started an online counterprotest called "We are the 53 percent" -- a reference to the 53 percent of Americans who pay federal income tax, on top of the payroll, local, sales and other taxes that other Americans pay.
http://news.yahoo.com/numbers-47-percent-pay-no-income-tax-look-170500327.html
That isn't what the Heritage Foundation said Randy. It isn't what the Mail said either. Now if you have some site that DOES say that give me a link.
AntwortenLöschenYes. Are you happy now? Actually, many of them, depending on their circumstances, should pay more than they are paying. I am part of the mythical 53%.
AntwortenLöschenMy question to you is whether people making $750,000 pay enough. Or $75 million.
I believe i read of him or one of the other Cons on the other groups saying they want EVERYone to pay.
AntwortenLöschenIn their vindictive, meanness of spirit, i've heard them say that even people so poor that the government doesn't require them to pay, SHOULD actually pay something.
They just need to feel that they are getting their way... no matter what. They NEED to get something out of those deadbeats. Just so they don't have to think of them getting "a free ride"... they HATE that feeling... true or not.
One of them said they should have to pay just $25 or $50... just so long as the Cons get their pound of flesh.
I guess the words "social justice" and "conservatives" won't ever belong in the same sentence.
AntwortenLöschenAnd the irony is that they do pay. They pay the regressive sales tax in almost all states.
AntwortenLöschenYou are right about the pound of flesh. Once when I asked why the rich should not pay more, someone asked why I hated the rich. I ask why are the poor hated. Most people who receive government money work. Many work full time jobs and do not have tozens of chidren by different men as the sterotype goes. They work full time, a partnered couple with one or two kids and still need food stamps to get by.
Awwwwww... but the stereotype "feels" so much better for them to think about.
AntwortenLöschenJust like the words "Self Reliance" and "Liberals" won't ever belong in the same sentence. But "free ride" and "Democrat" always will.
AntwortenLöschenI think everyone who files a federal tax return should pay some federal income taxes. This is my position.
Right now 47% of those filing pay no federal income taxes. They should chip in. This is what I am saying.
"47% will pay no federal income tax
An increasing number of households end up owing nothing in major federal taxes, but the situation may not be sustainable over the long run."
http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/taxes/who_pays_taxes/index.htm
Randy, if you ever filed a Federal income tax you need to file one every year whether you have any income or not. Yeah, I know, if you make under a certain amount you don't legally need to file, but you better believe they come looking for you for the years you missed when you start filing again. For the period of 2007-1009 (three years) I filed Federal Taxes even though I had no income - I was living off my savings while recovering. So how much in taxes do you think were my fair share to pay?
AntwortenLöschenNo you don't. If you have no income you don't need to file. The government is only interested in people who have earned income or income from capital gains.
AntwortenLöschenThe dude living in a trailer with no job is not paying $85 to have his taxes done at HR Block! None of these people are filing.
The bigger question is this; Do you support people making earned income but paying ZERO federal income taxes?
It's that simple (there is no OTHER here DIIO). If you make 40K a year - should you pay federal income taxes? Why is this so hard?
Here - let's start with this;
"Nearly 22% of those making between $50,000 and $75,000 end up with no federal income tax liability or negative liability as do 9% of households with incomes between $75,000 and $100,000."
Should those who fall in the income brackets listed above pay some federal income taxes?
*does not expect a direct answer*
Well you're going to get one anyway.
AntwortenLöschenThere should be a graduated income tax with no deductions. Nobody should pay Federal Income tax on their first $20,000 of income, not the person making $15,000, nor the person making $1.5 million. That first $20 K should be tax free for everybody. The SECOND $30 K you make should be taxed at something like 5%, the NEXT $50 K 10%, etc.
So yes, somebody making less than the FEDERAL POVERTY GUIDELINE should NOT pay taxes because what you would then have is a person sending the Federal Government money so the Federal Government can send it back to them if they so desire.
And YOU as a conservative are against that concept, right?
*does not expect a direct answer*
Exactly!
AntwortenLöschenAnd it's so sad theat thay simply have to squeeze ... what... $40 dollars out of you... JUST to make them feel better.They're so obsessed with the idea that SOMEbody is getting over that they'll make YOU and other innocents suffer.
Pure, jealous vindictiveness, IMO.
Please let me know how they do it cuz i'm in that boat and could use a break!
AntwortenLöschenPersonally i believe the notion and the figures are bullshit.
It seems this same story gets dusted off and re-run every year, always with a generalized statistic so that the casual observer could get the impression that the poorer half of the country is living happily tax-free.
AntwortenLöschenThose of us who analyze what it actually means and look at the probable motives of the source- in this case the Heritage Foundation- are most likely a small minority. The propaganda effect is done.
Loopholes like capital gains and other accounting tricks that allow a Romney to pay only 15% need closing. But if you look at the tax tables that most of us use, it is clear that anyone who gets all their deducted tax refunded probably has it coming, unless they're cheating.
Contrary to the propaganda, it is the Republicans who offer a free ride. The wealthy to whom they offer it express their gratitude in donations and other perks. The conservative attitude in general demands something for nothing. The budget is unbalanced? Their answer never includes raising taxes, despite the fact that American tax rates are among the lowest in the world. And they won't cut the military budget- that's making them money, and making foreign exploitation possible, making more money.
That leaves the people, and the funds that go toward the General Welfare of the people. Who needs people?
The same attitude prevails when they need work done. Pay the lowest wage possible. If US workers are too organized, destroy their unions. If they still need a living wage, fire them and hire Chinese, or whoever is working for less.
Anyone who thinks someone getting food stamps is getting something for nothing, take a look at the CEO's of those corporations outsourcing labor overseas, making record profits despite a recession, and see what their bonuses amount to. THAT is something for nothing.