I guess this has nothing to do with politics etc, but it is worth reminding ourselves once in a while how deeply intertwined organised religion is with the actual physical world that grown-ups live in. I found this and wanted to share it. I don't need a tooth fairy to tell me right from wrong.
Be assured, we atheists do not generally condemn those who wish to believe in x,y,z... whatever it may be. We might argue the science - and as far as I know, there is zero concrete evidence one way or the other. Personally, my opinion is that Theism -mono, poly, whichever - is ridiculous and I think where it interferes with things like politics, education and medicine, we can be standing on very shaky ground.
As well as this stance on 'god', by whichever you call him (or her), I would also put 'Humanist' or 'Humanitarian' high on my list of priorities. This is where I source my strong sense of injustice at the genocide and war for profit carried out around the world, often in the name of one or other religion.
Here, I could say "do a good deed for your fellow man (or woman) today? Love your neighbour."
But people tend to stick to their own little groups and mindsets. I won't hold my breath waiting for the olive branch across the religious divide. Or for that matter, the political one.
Same with Multiply, and how things will go in coming months - people flock together, and some will lose contact, form new bonds. Here's a shortlist of places I've heard this week, people intend to migrate to...
Blogger, Wordpress, Blogster, Facebook, G+, LJ, Twitter, Yuku, Xanga, Webs, Tribe, Diaspora, TypePad, Badoo and various self-made projects which will need to be paid for communally...
As with religious belief, then, or any divisive force like that, people squabble internally until what was once cohesive about their grouping, is no more.
As far as this group and its' ethos is concerned - I'll be happy to see less of the wing-nuts in the near future. Arguing with them is just not productive. I've learned this and that, but rarely seen it really go anywhere - in years.
A monopolar 'echo-chamber' we most certainly don't want. But I am not alone in feeling that the most aggressive and incessant of them, will not be missed.
For those of a like mind, there is a core group from here have already begun to contact me, asking where I'll be going, and hoping to stay in touch. This is a pleasure to see - is nice to know we made an impression.
I think I can speak even for Comandante Baglava, in that she and I intend to keep flying the SLG flag, united, somewhere...
My account may disappear this weekend. Be seeing you X
I figure the only correct step forward now is 'more writing'. Real, properly researched, actual blogging. Been a bit slack in that department, frankly. Pure laziness...
AntwortenLöschenI'd call this a condemnation. It destroys communication, sometimes about things that have nothing to do with whether the other person believes in a (or more than one) superior being or not. What does it matter whether someone got his idea of e.g. justice from his parents or from a book he believes is inspired by a god? It's his definition of justice that's relevant.
AntwortenLöschenI agree that spiritual beliefs are and should be a personal matter and that one shouldn't bother people with them unless they show an interest. I also agree that they shouldn't influence government decisions and/or laws - but it's impossible to avoid in places where 90% have the same faith; the majority will vote for laws that agree with their faith and against the opposite, assuming it's a functioning democracy.
Yeah, I concede that one. Maybe I am a tad dismissive and sarcastic about God belief, and as such can certainly not speak for all Atheists.
AntwortenLöschenAs for 'communication', I'm not sure there was much, not real two-way dialogue at least, to begin with. lol
Of course there are some Theists that condemn you as soon as they hear you're an atheist. I just don't see where you - or let's say the ridiculing type of atheist - are more open-minded than they are.
AntwortenLöschenI'll go for respect for different approaches to what it means to be a human in which kind of universe. Mutual respect. I'm not going to say much more than "thanks for passing the salt" to a person who either tells me I'll go to hell or that I am ridiculous.
In my opinion the Roman Catholic Church is a criminal organization, which committed worst crimes during history. They always preached water and drank wine, and except in the Liberation Theology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology they ALWAYS were on the side of the rich and mighty. I refuse to forget this listening to prayers and sermons and I reject their demand for authority in moral and ethic. I don't believe they know more about spirituality or are nearer to something they call god than we all are.
AntwortenLöschenI'm currently very busy checking other networks to find a haven for our group, and also to save at least important blogs of our group, to start over in a network that's not agonizing as Multiply was since it was sold to SA. Will post a thread soon to discuss where we will go.
May Fortuna bless us all.
Oh, organizations - I dislike most of them regardless of what unites their members, at least when they've grown big enough to dominate their surroundings.
AntwortenLöschenIf atheists are so confident in their dis-belief, why are they organized and so busy trying to validate themselves?
AntwortenLöschenWhy do they fear religious expression if it is so absurd?
For the sake of consistency, shouldn't you be spending capital on protesting the tooth fairy practice as well?
Or do you put money under your child's pillow too? Isn't that promoting a myth?
One of these days the atheists will begin to perceive the irony.
You ARE a religion.
I don't know about being organized - I suppose most atheists aren't - but the validation - good question!
AntwortenLöschenYes, atheism sometimes functions exactly as a religion for its adherents. Not for all of them, though.
I think I have to point out that nobody tries to stop others from e.g. having abortions or being gay or being atheists because s/he believes in a tooth fairy or tarot cards or UFOs.
AntwortenLöschenIndeed, don't be an asshole. As in - don't say "no Islamic country will ever give us a cure for cancer" (Randy, July 2012, SLG). Of course they won't - they're too busy trying to survive. I'll be surprised if Iraq has any hospitals left. I don't even want to think about the state of Gaza's medical facilities.
AntwortenLöschenYou only need that one commandment really, when you have a moral compass of your own.
Jim, I do respect your intelligence, but I think you miss the point, and react as expected. Saying that, didn't know you were a believer. I'm quite apathetic about it all. Atheism is a religion? No, it's a philosophy.
I believe in believing in things that can be proven, beyond doubt. You might say this would make me an agnostic. I go that last step further and choose to be a full atheist, because it makes more sense to me. Like being vegetarian or vegan. The only difference between Christianity and Islam, and say, Scientology or some cult like that, is that it's been around longer. As was said above - if 90% of society vote for religious law, it will be so. I hope for humanity's sake that the USA doesn't go that way. I am not comfortable knowing that the world's largest stockpile of nuclear weapons - and god knows what else - is under the command of someone who hears voices from their imaginary friend.
I can't hold it against most. They grow up in a certain environment, indoctrinated from birth usually, sometimes don't know any different. Whatever works for you. Just leave the rest of us alone.
I will conced that religion = a set of beliefs, a discipline. Atheism fits this description. But it is not what we understand religion to be in this day and age, associated with the belief in supernatural talking bushes and snakes, zombies rising from from the dead, men walking on water... 'miracles'. Jesus...
It's just surreal to me, I'm sorry. I've met really intelligent people who believe in that nonsense. The psychology of it fascinates me.
If you use a functional - as opposed to substantial - definition of religion as a phenomenon, it will usually cover atheism and many other philosophies. It will often also cover e.g. fan clubs. In fact, the latter have cults, i.e. ritual practices they meet to perform. Atheism lacks this (as far as I know), but it functions as a faith on the sociological level, sometimes. It also encompasses ardent missionaries.
AntwortenLöschenI'm not sure who your "we" are. It's a very limited understanding of religion you quote. I've met several people who wouldn't dream of believing literally in all the stuff written in the Bible or Koran, i.e. they consider the Adam/Eve story a (primitive) myth, but they do believe that God created the Universe, as in caused the Big Bang or the like. They usually also believe in a set of ethical principles although many are willing to concede that ethics evolve/change when society does. Rituals are to such people a way of connecting to the divine, e.g. by participating in the Eucharist (Muslim prayer works somewhat like meditation - yes, I'm speaking from experience). It's just that this kind of believers aren't the ones who speak most often or loudest in public. It's the fanatics we hear.
I'm not sure what you mean by "cults". Sects, probably. I don't know any definition that distinguishes clearly between sects and denominations except that sects are smaller groups, i.e. not mainstream. The word tends to mean nothing but "the ones we look down on".
I am not an Atheist! I choose to stand for something not just float in a meaningless existence.
AntwortenLöschenAND - A Muslim country will NEVER explore space, cure cancer or do anything else besides read the Koran 24/7.
It's sad but true and I have no problem saying it.
It's a culture thing.
READ:
Why are Muslim countries poor?
Written by John Draper
He is basically saying that if Muslims want to succeed, they will have to adopt some western values. Living by the Qur'an and Islamic law will not bridge the economic gap.
http://cobourgatheist.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1016:why-are-muslim-countries-poor&catid=200:muslim-culture&Itemid=136
Randy, have you ever heard about the Caliph's empire?
AntwortenLöschenYes - I think it reached it's peak when the Ottoman Empire defeated the Mamluk Sultanate in 1517.
AntwortenLöschenThat was 500 years ago.
That's right - 500 years ago. Do you know how Europe was then, or 1000 years ago? Or maybe I should ask in another way: do you know anything about the history apart from some battles? Culture, art, science, philosophy?
AntwortenLöschenYou have, I assume, also heard about something called colonialism. And - never mind. I only became a member here in order to read one post.
Not this one, I'll add, but there's nothing wrong with the blog, of course.
AntwortenLöschenIn theory at least, my point about Iraqi hospitals and Gaza stands. I'd like to see NASA 'explore space' with Chinese and Russian bombs landing all around Houston.
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